INTERVIEW

September 2009

The bestselling interactive series The 39 Clues is a collaborative effort among seven acclaimed YA authors --- including Rick Riordan, Gordon Korman and Jude Watson --- that chronicles the adventures of Dan and Amy Cahill, who travel the world in search of clues said to reveal secrets about their family's history. Patrick Carman --- the author of the series' newly released fifth book, THE BLACK CIRCLE --- recently spoke with Kidsreads.com's Chris Shanley-Dillman about how he became involved in the project and how he prepared for contributing to an already-established story arc. He also names his favorite character, hints at what future installments might hold for the Cahill kids, and shares details about some of his own projects in the works.

Kidsreads.com: How did you become involved with the 39 Clues series?

Patrick Carman: My editor, David Levithan, sent me an early note about the project while I was working on Skeleton Creek. He didn’t ask if I wanted to write one of the 10 books, but I wasn’t about to wait for an invitation. About six seconds after I got his email, I fired one back that said something along the lines of: Can I do one? Oh please, oh please, oh please! It was a rash move and some shameless begging, but I got the project, and I’m so glad I did.

KRC: How is writing for an already established series different from writing your own books? 

PC: Oddly enough, the actual writing wasn’t that different from writing an original novel. I mean, Scholastic gave me a lot of freedom to write what I wanted. It was like, “we’re here in the story and we need to get over there. And your story has to take place in Russia. Good luck.”
 
The 39 Clues has a brilliant editor in Rachel Griffiths, and that really makes all the difference. She’s very good at letting an author off the leash while still maintaining a consistent voice throughout.
 
Probably the one big thing that was different about writing THE BLACK CIRCLE was the research. Most of my books don’t contain history or historical figures (unless I make them up). THE BLACK CIRCLE made me dig into Russia’s past and stretched me as a researcher.

KRC: Is there a book with background on the series so you had reference points on what was going on thus far?

PC: Not so much a book, but lots of what I would describe as back matter. Family history, connections between characters, world history, character overviews, story arc --- all that is documented. And of course, I had the first four books to read (twice) to get into the Cahill mindset.

KRC: Dan loves to gorge on junk food. What is your favorite junk food? 

PC: There are so many, though I have to say my wife is a serious health nut so I don’t indulge as much as this is going to sound like. This a partial list of my favorites, many of which I only get to enjoy on rare occasions (like when I’m on tour or my wife is out of town!).
 
Whoppers, frosting, chocolate-covered salty things (pretzels, peanuts, popcorn), gummy stuff (not the sour kind, those are gross), chocolate peanut butter ice cream, a shot of espresso with a dollop of vanilla gelato (okay that, right there, is amazing), Junior Mints, Kettle Corn (fresh, at the fair), and speaking of the fair, elephant ears and those blocks of French fries bigger than a brick. Oh, and chocolate-chip cookies. And pecan pie. Maple bars are pretty good, but it’s a crime to eat one without coffee. I’m hungry.

KRC: Amy gets nervous and stutters. Did you have this problem growing up? If so, how did you deal with it? If not, would you share something that you did struggle with while growing up and how you dealt with it? 

PC: I didn’t stutter, but I did get nervous a lot as a kid. And I was a terrible speller. I remember once in the fourth grade spelling the word grate and my friend saying, “Dude, it’s great, not grate.“ I was so sure he was wrong --- I mean, come on, great? That can’t be right. I bet him the candy bar in my lunch it was grate. I think you can guess how this story ends. For a long time after that I focused my writing efforts on words with four letters or less. I think this was a grate creative exercise. So for example, I could say: Wonderful weather outside today. But why go to all that trouble when I could simply write: Sun make day hot!

KRC: Hamilton Holt has a much bigger part in book five than in the previous installments. He actually seems like a nice fellow. Should Dan and Amy trust him? 

PC: I think there’s a line in my contract that says, “if you reveal something from a 39 Clues book that’s not out yet, we don’t have to pay you.” That is some serious motivation to keep quiet, so I can’t help you here. What I can say is that I always thought the Holts could be funny, and I like funny. Hamilton Holt has a lot going for him in the dialogue department.

KRC: Nellie, the au pair, and Saladin, the cat, have very small parts in THE BLACK CIRCLE. Why did you decide to go this route? 

PC: I wanted to get Amy and Dan off on their own with no adults around, and I also liked the idea of casting doubt on Nellie. I’m not saying anything about her character, only that I thought there needed to be some mystery around her motivations. As far as the cat is concerned, it’s practically impossible to get one into Russia and it didn’t seem realistic to haul it around anymore. I think we’ll be seeing both the cat and the au pair soon enough. They’re tough to ditch.

KRC: Of all the characters introduced so far in The 39 Clues, do you have a favorite?

PC: Dan. He’s the king of the one-liner, and the kind of kid I would have hung out with when I was in school.

KRC: Tell us more about the book’s title. 

PC: THE BLACK CIRCLE refers to a Lucian-controlled area in the story. Plus, it’s an intriguing title, which is important to a series of this kind.  

KRC: The Cahill family has four different branches. Which do you belong to? 

PC: I’m a Lucian! Go figure.

KRC: You have a gift for writing, one that creates excitement and propels readers through the pages. How did you go about developing this talent? 

PC: I think of myself as a storyteller first, a writer second. I was one of those kids who couldn’t keep quiet in school, and I was always telling stories. Back in those days, my parents were more likely to call them whoppers, like when I tried to pin the blame on someone else for having thrown a baseball through a window (it wasn’t me, it was my brother. It was always my brother). I try to visit 100 schools a year, and I’m constantly reminding kids: the big difference between writing and telling a story is a pencil. Tell your parents about your day when you get home. Include some details. Make it interesting. That kind of practice makes you put experiences into words, a critical skill for any good writer.

KRC:You could write books for any age group. Why do you choose to write for kids, the most challenging and special of audiences? 

PC: I think writing for a young audience is a natural extension of my personality, and I also enjoy the freedom I’ve had as a youth-fiction writer. I love challenging myself by switching genres and formats, and children’s publishing offers me that advantage. So far I’ve tackled fantasy (The Land of Elyon series), sci-fi (Atherton), horror (Skeleton Creek), first chapter books (Elliot’s Park), and adventure (THE BLACK CIRCLE). And I’ve been able to explore emerging formats like books that are also video games (The 39 Clues) and books that are also movies (Skeleton Creek). I couldn’t be happier with how publishers have embraced the stories I want to tell and the ways in which I like to tell them.

KRC: Can you give us any hints about upcoming books for The 39 Clues? What other projects are you working on?

PC: I expect the remaining 39 Clues books to be world-class adventures from some of the best writers in the game. Anything less would really surprise me. I’ve got Skeleton Creek II out in the fall of 2009, then my first YA novel in the spring, followed by what I’m calling a cross between The 39 Clues and Skeleton Creek --- it’s a big one. Stay tuned!
 
Thank you for a wonderful list of questions and for advocating on behalf of kids everywhere! I’m off to find some junk food…this interview made me hungry.

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AUTHOR TALK

February 2009

Children’s author Patrick Carman’s latest work, SKELETON CREEK, is the first installment of an innovative new series that tells its tale in two parts: Ryan, one of the main characters, shares his journals within the text of the book, while his friend Sarah --- an amateur filmmaker --- tells her side of the story through videos that readers can watch by visiting her website. In this interview, Carman and his editor, David Levithan, discuss what inspired this multimedia project and reveal the initial insecurities about taking on this new method of storytelling. Carman also shares some behind-the-scenes information about shooting the videos, explains why it’s so important to think outside the box as a way to encourage young readers, and talks about why he chose to end the book with a cliffhanger.

David Levithan: Usually, I start off Q&As by asking my authors “Where did this idea come from?”  But here that question has multiple parts. Let’s start with: Where did you get the idea for SKELETON CREEK’s groundbreaking format? 

Patrick Carman: I’ve always preferred writing books where there are illustrators, artists, sculptors, filmmakers, and visionaries involved in the process. All of my past projects have included outside creative forces in many forms (including editing!). For me, SKELETON CREEK was the answer to a fundamental problem I was having as technology entered the picture.

In the past, when technology has been included in one of my projects, I’ve never felt like it was deeply connected to the story. So for example, the last project I worked on contained a lot of filmed segments for the Web, but they weren’t tied to the story in a very meaningful way. This kind of Web-based add-on feels hollow for the reader, as if it’s been bolted on as a bonus rather than essential to the experience. It was frustrating because I know technology means something different to my kids (11 and 13 years old) than it does for me. It holds more weight in a way I don’t completely understand.

I spent a lot of time thinking about this problem, often when I was on the road after having visited two or three schools earlier in the day. On one of my trips I was working in a journal, trying to think about how to bring these two artistic mediums together --- printed word and online video --- and I drew a picture. It was a page from a book that twisted in the middle. When it came out the other side it was a piece of film stock. The image completely ignited my imagination.

Was there a story that could be told in which the printed word and online videos could contribute equally? And better still, from my perspective, could they be made inseparable?

DL: And where did the idea for the story come from?

PC: I had a strong feeling from the very beginning that this idea was doomed if the material didn’t fit the format. It takes a specific kind of story to be told successfully in this way. I scrapped four different drafts in the beginning because it felt too much like the structure was taking center stage. For this format to work --- in the same way that a movie or a book works --- the story and the characters had to be front and center, not the medium that presented them.

I knew I needed two distinct characters, one that loved to write and one that loved to shoot video. Ideally, they would almost compete with one another over the power of storytelling in their chosen field, trying to convince the reader and the watcher that their medium was best. I love this idea, especially for young readers, because online video has become so integrated into their lives.

I also liked the idea of creating two characters who loved their craft in part because of their own personalities. The often competing personalities of filmmakers and writers created the basis for Ryan and Sarah. Ryan (the writer) is motivated at least in part by his fear of what lies outside the safety of his journals. Sarah, on the other hand, feels happiest when she’s investigating the world outside.

A ghost story always felt like the perfect fit for this format. It gave me so much to work with! Ryan loves to write scary stories, not experience them in real life, so the idea of a real ghost keeps him isolated from Sarah. And for an outgoing girl with a camera, it doesn’t get much better than a mystery wrapped in a good scare. A ghost story also gave me the kind of imagery I needed with Sarah’s short videos, which needed to hold the readers’ attention and provide payoff for having done the work of reading 20–30 pages of text.

DL: What was it like for you, as an author, to suddenly be telling stories in both written and visual form?

PC: Writing a book feels very linear compared to working on a story told in video form. When I write a book I have a plan, a sort of straight line from start to finish that drives the effort. We had seventeen people working on different parts of the video segments all at one time and it was my job to oversee the production, so in that respect I was the producer/writer. I quickly learned that whether I liked it or not, the script I wrote would have to be a fluid document. Me in a room writing a book is different than my shooting script having to survive locations, actors, sets, lighting, music, the director, videographer, weather, sound effects…well, you get the idea. Bottom line, I had to become much more flexible as a writer.

DL: From the beginning, we knew this would be a massive behind-the-scenes undertaking.  And while I’d love to say it was just you and me the whole time, with you manning the camera and me playing every part in the videos, there were actually a lot of people involved in this process.  How did you form the SKELETON CREEK team?

PC: I was extremely lucky to have a close friend on the project who had spent 20 years in Hollywood working on films. Jeffrey Townsend worked on Sleepless in Seattle, The Fabulous Baker Boys, Night Shift (Martin Scorsese), and Pacific Heights, to name a few. He’d also won an Emmy for writing on “The Tracey Ullman Show,” so he really understood how my script would need to evolve. Having him involved in filming, editing, and visual/audio effects was huge. From there we worked together to bring in a seasoned videographer and all the other important parts of the crew.

The video sections of the story were purposely developed as GIRL WITH A CAMERA. I put those words in caps because ultimately the girl we chose would have to carry a lot on her shoulders or it wasn’t going to work. Both guys and girls would have to like her and want to root for her. She had to show a wide range of emotions. And above all, the girl had to look into the camera as if she was simply talking to her best friend, because in the context of the book, she’s looking right at the reader. I wanted the reader to feel like Sarah was their best friend, taking them out of the book to join her in the real world.

I flew to Los Angeles with the videographer where an agent had pre-screened 500 girls and narrowed it to 100. We filmed every one of them doing a scene from the book, narrowed to ten, then to three, then went home and decided to screen another ten girls from Walla Walla (the small town where I live). I didn’t expect to find a talented enough actress for the part in a small town, but I wanted to at least try. No one, least of all me, expected to be blown away when Amber Larsen, a local Walla Wallan, read for the part. But when she left the room we all knew Amber was the one. There was very little discussion. The way she connected, the way she looked, everything about her said Sarah.

I searched MySpace for a band with the right kind of sound and got them involved, and worked with Jeffrey to build the rest of the team (makeup, set design, lighting, the works).

Needless to say, making SKELETON CREEK wasn’t cheap. I’ve never blown an advance faster in my life!

DL: How long, in all, did it take to develop SKELETON CREEK?

PC: Start to finish, three years. A year developing the story, another year preparing, and a final year filming/editing/packaging the online experience.

DL: What’s the biggest challenge in telling a story this way?

PC: If I had to pick one thing it would be dealing with the fear of failing. Nothing came easy on this project because we were inventing a new way of telling a story. For a writer, it doesn’t get much scarier than that.

I understood not everyone was going to respond positively to SKELETON CREEK, that it would create some controversy over what constitutes an actual book. My hunch, pre-publication, is that SKELETON CREEK will be a polarizing project. Not everyone is going to be comfortable going back and forth between the printed page and online videos. Knowing this going in was really hard, because I knew it would meet with some resistance, particularly from my adult peers (thus the fear of failure noted above!). 

But here’s what kept me going….

I’ve traveled to over 600 schools in the past five years, and that experience has shown me firsthand how wired kids have become. Three important takeaways from my travels:

1) Every year kids are drawn into communication and entertainment technology at a younger and younger age, and the noise is getting louder and louder. Two short years ago I saw almost no cell phones in the hands of middle school students, now they’re beyond common in middle schools and grade schools.

2) Books are having a harder time holding the attention of a wired youth culture. iPods, cell phones, movies, the Internet, video games, and television are distracting even our best young readers.

3) While there will always be plenty of room for traditional books for young adults, publishing has to think outside the box in order to bring back many of our young readers.

I developed SKELETON CREEK for ten to sixteen year olds who have grown up with YouTube and MySpace for one reason: I want them to read. I’ve come to acknowledge the fact that some people aren’t going to get it.

DL: For a New Jersey boy like me, when you first said that the series would involve a haunted dredge, I will confess I had no idea what you were talking about. But then the first video came in and IT WAS SO SPOOKY. How did you find the dredge? Is it still there now?

PC: Finding the dredge was one of the magic moments on this project. It’s a very uniquely scary location. Back in the 40s and 50s the Northwest was open to gold dredging, but they’ve long since been banned because of the environmental damage they do. The gold dredge was like a giant earth-eating monster, filled with conveyer belts and gears. The fact that I was able to locate it was the first bit of magic, the second was the unbelievable privilege of being able to film inside it. The dredge we used is part of the Oregon parks system, so it was a small miracle we were able to gain access to shoot for weeks on end.

Someone was killed on the dredge a long time ago, back when it was still in operation, and there’s a thriving urban legend about the dredge being haunted. Our crew filmed at night, from dusk until dawn, and the place definitely felt haunted at two in the morning. Low-flying bats were a serious problem, but more than that, the dredge at night just felt incredibly spooky. There weren’t too many on our crew that would go in there at night alone. We worked in teams or as larger groups.

The dredge is real and they give behind-the-scenes tours. If you want a really good scare, or if you just want to see the incredible shooting location for yourself, visit www.friendsofthedredge.com.

DL: You’ve already been getting feedback from the book’s target audience --- ten to fourteen year olds. What have they been saying?

PC: The feedback has been very exciting. We’ve let about 50 young readers go through the SKELETON CREEK experience top to bottom, and they absolutely love it. I think it hinges on interesting characters, a strong plot, and a good scare, but there’s also a genuine reaction to the format itself. They get it, love it, and want more of it.

DL: When we first started on this, it was before the iPhone had come out, and I know there was some concern that Webvideo was confined to desktop computers.  Now, of course, many kids have Webvideo capability in their pockets. How has this impacted the project?

PC: The delivery method is sort of beside the point with SKELETON CREEK, because the videos will show up on whatever device a reader uses to access the Web. We designed it that way on purpose, at first for international markets that are ahead of us in this area (Japan comes to mind) but then because we knew mobile Internet on a phone was quickly taking over.

It’s very interesting, because my 13-year-old daughter is a typical teenager, and she never does one thing at a time when it comes to communication. She’ll sit with her laptop open, IM’ing her friends and surfing the Web, while collecting and sending text messages on her phone, while listening to iTunes in the background, while trying to do what we told her to do, which was to clean her room. Having SKELETON CREEK available on a phone is important, but kids are consuming media in so many different ways all day long that I actually think the Web versions will be far more popular for awhile yet.

This takes me to another small but important point. The passwords used to access Sarah’s videos online are completely by design. They may seem esoteric at first, but with our early readers, I was very excited to find that they did exactly what I hoped they would do: watch the video, then go straight to a search engine and put in the password. Every password leads to something interesting that’s connected to the story. Some of them are characters from old gothic novels, others are connected to classic scary films --- and in all cases, if they search a little bit, they’ll see a connection between the password and what’s happening in SKELETON CREEK. To me this is very exciting, because it brings the whole experience full circle: the story sparks curiosity, and being online, there is instant gratification as they go out and learn something new. The passwords are also designed to point readers toward some of the most important authors, stories, and filmmakers of the past.

DL: While kids completely get this project, and most teachers, parents, booksellers, and librarians do as well, there are some people who still get skittish when there’s a marriage of books and technology. What do you say to people who are concerned about the format?

PC: There will always be endless space in bookstores and libraries for traditional books and I hope to write a few more of them. But as an author who stands in 100 different school gymnasiums every year, I’m here to tell you: we need to start thinking outside the box more often, not less often.

Movie studios, video game companies, music labels, social networking sites, cell phone companies --- all of them would much rather our kids spend time consuming their brand of entertainment than reading books. And the toughest part? Books are by far the most challenging entertainment sale for our kids. No sounds, no lights, no gaming strategy, no beat to dance to, no person on the other line to talk with. And yet all the studies show the same thing: reading is king when it comes to educating kids.

SKELETON CREEK is a project that goes all the way out to the edge and back again --- it’s not about bridging the gap between technology and books --- it’s about erasing it.

To answer your question more directly: What do I say to people who are concerned about the format? I say visit a middle school or a high school. Ask the students what they spend their time doing. Ask them when they last read a book purely for the fun of it (make sure and ask both boys and girls). Ask them how much time they spend surfing the Web, texting, playing video games, watching TV and movies, or listening to music. Then ask yourself: is it so hard to imagine a book that cuts directly into all that noise and brings students back to the printed page?

DL: The SKELETON CREEK story has, of course, taken on a life of its own, outside of the books and the videos. Can you tell us anything about the www.skeletoncreekisreal.com site that has popped up?

PC: No comment.

DL: After reading book one, I’m sure the first question on every reader’s mind is going to be: WHEN CAN I READ BOOK TWO?!  Care to comment?

PC: This is a two-book-only experience and it’s going to happen fast. SKELETON CREEK will be out February 10th and the second book, GHOST IN THE MACHINE, will be out six months later. The big reason for this is the cliffhanger ending of the first book, which I defend as absolutely necessary to what my vision for the story is. I’m highly influenced by other people doing groundbreaking story formats. Shows like “Lost”, “24”, and even “30 Rock” broke the mold in their respective areas and reinvented storytelling along the way. And I make no distinction between the writing of a show and the writing of a book --- it’s all writing as far as I’m concerned. “Lost” and “24” in particular have a cliffhanger element to them that, I think, is an important part of the story itself. “Lost” would be nowhere near as interesting if it wasn’t so darn frustrating sometimes to have to wait. Sometimes the wait is a week, sometimes it’s many months, but what happens in between is important. Everyone talks about it, everyone has their own ideas about what will happen next. In that way we all become part of the developing story. Make no mistake --- SKELETON CREEK ends on a cliffhanger --- but there will be a lot to keep readers going during the six-month wait for GHOST IN THE MACHINE. The wait will provide a critical moment for readers to ask themselves and each other: what’s going to happen next?

I said no comment on www.skeletoncreekisreal.com but I’ll at least say one thing: go there between books. Whether I have anything to do with it is beside the point. It’s where the story is unfolding, real or imagined.

© Copyright 2009, Scholastic Press, an imprint of Scholastic Inc. All rights reserved.